Remove the photo guide!

Hey...I just found out there's a possibilty to use a photo guide from your computer and trace that photo..
I think this feature should be removed.

I mean..this is an online drawing community right?
So the challenge is, to create drawings online, I think being able to trace any picture doesnt match that idea.

Coz, basically everyone can just trace over an image..there's nothing artistic about that.
And yes, I think its cheating, not only to others, but especially to yourself.

If someone really wants to copy an existing picture (coz he/she likes it or w/e), i think, this person has to copy by looking at it.
(like you do, when you draw a portrait as in traditional art). There are already so many chances for people to simply trace images and sell them as their own, I think Queeky should offer honest artists to prove their skills - by creating online drawings without being able to trace over images.

Of course, not everyone uses this cheating tool, but I think, we should give everyone the same conditions - imagine two artists:
One is copying and tracing all time, while the other uses his own imagination and skills. Artist No1 traced his image very well and the reference looked epic, while Artist No2's work lacks some professionalism, even though the idea was pretty cool. Whose work would attract more views, rates,. comments?
I suggest, the one which looks more proffesional.

But is it fair? I mean, every child can trace. Is art determined by "who copies best" or imagination?

Are you artistic enough to abandon the photo guide and start drawing honestly?

(Ok, sorry for the rant, but it's just what I think about this topic. This post wasn't made to offend people who trace, but think about those questions)


admin's picture
Hi all

I can't really believe what's going on here Sad

I created Queeky as a tool for artistic expression.

Art is free and there are no bounds or rules in art that forbid the use of a reference, even if it is traced. If an artist is using a photo or not, is a personal descission. There is no need to attack artists you use this technique (and it is nothing more than a technique). People who think or do so, should learn something about the history of art, before speaking out what they think. In my personal opinion and experience, it helps to learn drawing if you don't trace to much (sometimes it can be very use- and helpful to trace espacially if you want to improve in drawing realistic things). I personally think it is better to draw from a reference by "tracing" only with your eyes, but this is a PERSONAL opinion. For others different techniques may work better. Most people on here who use the photoguide/photos in a layer as a reference only use it as a help on particular parts, e.g. colors or outlines. Again, art is free and there are no "rules" that forbid anything like this. In the end, it is the personal experience and the joy on drawing that counts. Nothing else.

People who are not able to respect the work of other artists are free to think what they want. But it is not ok to offend others because of a personal belief. Queeky is not the place for rude and offensive behaviour. I encourage you all to calm down and stop making an elephant out of a fly.

To all members who do not like drawings which are based on a photograph: keep on doing your style but stop being offensive to others. Such a behaviour will not improve your work, and may constrain your personal artistic development, because it limits your posibillities. Again: art is free.

Members who offend (I mean offend NOT critique) other artists through comments or personal messages, will be kicked from this site. I created Queeky as a tool for artistic expression, not for art related offence. If you want to push your personal opinion about art through offensive actions, please do it on an other site.

In the end we're all here for the same reason: to enjoy drawing. Please take a minute to think about this.

Thank you.

Queeky admin

Cun's picture
I think .... photoguide not

I think ....

photoguide not eliminate.

although some people think is "cheating " may see it as something else! an artistic choice! oportundad if they use this element, use it! exploit

do not see it as wrong, friends are thrilled me, something new, experiment, you can modify the original image ....

add it some more (horns wings, whiskers ... whatever you want!) and if not altered the original image ... who cares, you can practice your Ability to draw with this tool! Laughing out loud

and if ... bother you that these drawings have more credit than yours, well ... with that you can not do anything, that is a matter of mind. Wink

I am in favor of photoguide.

I recommend you use it, it's all about how you use it, that you imagine that you can do with it. it also requires talent, imagination and creativity.

some comments made ​​by some users here disappoint me, it bothers me to behave well. I wanted to respond to someone, but I resist.

CUN to favor the photoguide. Laughing out loud

feliz a quien la muerte ciñe las cienes con sangrientos lauros en medio del esplandor de la victoria...

danila's picture



Giselle's picture
it would appear....

It would appear that I have backed myself into a corner here. I am damned if I do and damned if I don't Wink I really don't want to continue this thread because it has become ridiculous, harmful and way off topic. I really should just have stayed out of it but foolishly thought I could do some good when in turn it seemed to do just as much damage. The road to hell is paved with good intentions Innocent But I also feel that I should at the very least reply to Wungu since it is mostly in response to my comment.

And for your clarification to whom I was addressing, simply anyone to which the subject matter pertains to. If you don't feel it affects you then you shouldn't be worried by it. For example if you did not remove me from your friend list recently then you can be quite confident I was not addressing you. I really didn't want to start naming anyone because to me that's just rude. I made some observations and stated them, if you played a part in these and think I am wrong then by all means call me out on it. If you didn't play a part in any of it then you shouldn't have to feel as though you should defend yourself.

KO, I am sorry if I made it sound like you were defenseless , not at all my intention.

I just wanted for you guys to stop the bickering and be more respectful on both sides - adults and teens!

Perhaps you were "encouraging a young person to take responsibility for her behavior" but you in turn managed to make it ok for adults to not take responsibility for theirs.

Wungu, I think we will have to agree to disagree about who should be educating and nurturing our youth. As a parent I will choose who I want nurturing and educating my children. I really don't want them getting instructions on life from just anyone...especially on the internet. On another note though I agree that we should help our youth in any way we can but without imposing too much of our morals and values on them, when they are not our kin. Basic manners and comportment would be fine for example.

Photoguide: You can save a drawing done with photoguide and the import tool without them being labeled photoguide or it going to the collage gallery. If you have any doubts just try the steps I gave Kutedymples or save a drawing you have worked on in photoguide to your computer only, and when it's all done, publish it from the file you saved to your computer. I always save to my computer because saving to Queeky crashes more often than not and that's how I discovered that photoguide and import are not always labeled.

I really don't know what you are referring to here.

The reason I see this clique is because I look at the big picture of the site as a whole and see echoes of the same behaviour in different threads. An example of this is seeing almost identically phrased and clearly flawed personal comments made against one member on several occasions by connected individuals ... maybe you didn't see an exchange that was edited within 12 hours of appearing in the comments of another's art a few months ago?

I don't read everbody's comments on this site so if you are trying to make a point here you will have to clarify this one for me.

I am not defending KO or anyone's rude behavior here. It's not ok for anyone to debate, comment or chat in a rude manner. I just don't see how you expect anyone to be respectful to someone if they are not being respectful themselves. Sure we can be respectful to someone even though they're not but that's not the point here. This started with Lime, not KO. It seemed to me that all KO and the others were trying to do was defend Lime, her opinion and how she'd been treated. I'm guessing they figured they would get the same treatment she got and you know what, they did.

What's your point here exactly?

In terms of people leaving the site - Lime took offence to people disagreeing with her sometime ago and stated so.

So will others if they keep getting attacked just for having different opinions. Does it make it ok? It wasn't as simple as you make it sound here. She was attacked for bringing up this subject. She wasn't rude or nasty about it. She stated her own opinion just as you have been doing. She offered a challenge to those of us who use the photoguide, that's all.


There are no prizes, this is not about winning individually – it is about winning a fabulous online community where everyone feels safe and valued for whatever contributions they choose to make. We largely moderate ourselves and have very few rules imposed upon us ... that will only work if everyone behaves with integrity. Showing aggression to others and refusing to listen is insulting to everyone and especially to Admin and Paul who make this wonderful resource available to us all.

Really? 'Showing aggression to others and refusing to listen is insulting'... If you believe this to be so, why do you defend so heartily those who do this all through this thread? You say such beautiful things such as the above quote but saying it doesn't automatically mean you are applying it. I would say Lime was trying to make a contribution to this site but some of you refused to see her side of it and could only see as far as your own needs and wants, the very same thing you accused her and the others of doing, you did yourselves.

The thread was supposed to be about the photoguide and has turned into a psychological drama. I have made my point clear about my disappointment towards some of the adults and how they are handling the youth on this site. I thought I had also made it clear that the teens could have chosen their words more carefully too but that one's still on the fence Wink So I am saying it again, this entire ordeal could have been handled in a much better way if both teens and adults would have chosen their words more carefully. I just wanted you to be aware of your behavior and the role you play in these youngsters' lives. I will say it again people, we are their role models and they look up to us even if they openly disrespect us etc that's not going to change.

I do agree on one thing for sure, this sandbox would be a much better place to play in if everyone could get along better and accept each other the way they are.

Giselle's picture
I just have to say this...

I realize by commenting I will most likely lose more friends for saying what I am about to say but I cannot sit back and watch this happen and still be able to sleep well at night.( yes I know that you *you know who you are* have taken me off your friends list for the comment I made on KO's journal...sad)

Some of you say that you are here to encourage our youth. This is not what I have been witnessing these past few weeks. Sure, teens can be quite the force to be reckoned with but as adults we should keep in mind that teens are full of insecurities and want acceptance just as much as you and I do. So I ask, why are you continuing this asinine thread? To teach a lesson maybe? If so you are going about it backwards and possibly harming a youth in ways you either don't seem to know or care about. Is that what you want? At the end when you have put in the last word and have successfully shut her up and strengthened her insecurities, will you sleep better knowing that one more child will have left Queeky and won't be voicing their opinions and taking away your tools? ...which was never taken away in the first place or even replaced because of anything that was said in this thread. Do you honestly believe that they removed the photoguide because of a couple of people? Even Admin was all for the photoguide and prior to all this he even said that they wanted to upgrade the photoguide not get rid of it! So when you didn't understand the new changes you decided it would be good to attack the people who were against having the photoguide. All this trouble over something you could have asked admin about or started a new post about but instead decided to attack.

I think you have picked the wrong teen to attack anyway because she is holding her own quite nicely. She shouldn't have had to go this far with this but I applaud her efforts. What I fear though is the time you will humiliate a teen that doesn't have KO's strength of character, what then? Has anyone seen Lime lately? This site is full of children, there's probably more of them than us adults and they come here to draw and socialize just as we do. Do you feel that it's your place to slap them down whenever they open their mouths? If so you're not going to have much time to draw. I cannot sit back and watch you guys go on about how giving and wonderful you all are to the youth on this site when I see the way you openly try to humiliate and crush them. How is that being adult? All you have managed to do is show how adults bully and humiliate children if they dare speak their minds.

To be completely honest some of the kids on this site are just down right rude and annoying but it's not our responsibility to babysit them or teach them manners is it? If you don't like something they say or do to you or maybe other kids, by all means let them know in a polite manner without trying to humiliate them or by attacking their self esteem! Otherwise, let them be!

What I am the most bothered by is how you want these kids to speak to you with respect but do not offer them the same in return.

As for the photoguide business...I would just like to point out to everyone that it is NOT clearly marked whenever someone uses a photo in their drawings. It never was and still isn't. Anyone with a little computer know how has figured this out a long time ago. So yes, it is still a mystery who is using the photoguide and who isn't. For some people that makes a difference, just like for others it doesn't. It seems that because there is a difference someone has to be villainized for it! WHY? Why couldn't you import your photos and do what you always did? Is it because your drawings would then go to the collage category? I thought that it was all about having fun and socializing with friends but it seems that it is really about the rating and favs, not the art itself. I see it again and again throughout this thread that the biggest reason for keeping the photoguide is that it is a learning tool; so is the import tool, you can do the same thing with it but the only difference is where the drawing was being saved.

It's a shame because those who wanted to keep the photoguide made some very good, intelligent points to why it should be kept but because of the way it was presented made their points mean less. In my opinion these kids have brought up some very good debatable points concerning the photoguide. So many got all bent out of shape when the word cheater was introduced to the debate. Why? Those of you who were so offended by the term, ask yourselves why were you so offended by this? Nobody attacked anyone by using the word cheater, they were simply voicing their opinion on the subject. Would it have been better to call those of use who use the photoguide, tracers? or how about outliners? duplicaters? Copyers? I thought the term cheater a bit harsh too but I also understood what they meant by it and honestly I agree. It is a form of deception and the way that it has been used quite often is an outright copyright infringement. Other than fanart I personally never use someone's photo without seeking their permission first and giving them credit. I don't see that happening much here and it is obvious that the drawings come from photos found on the internet. Just because a photo is on the internet doesn't mean it is now yours for the copying. Those photographers are artists too and worked hard for those beautiful photos. It is disrespectful to not credit them properly.

I have read comments where adults here have just plainly told teens that if they didn't like something here that they should just leave. These same people will then turn around and post that they want something changed on the site because they don't like it! I see clicks of people forming who then gang up on others for having different opinions. I see people claiming they don't care about the rates and favs who won't rate someone's art if it is too close to upcoming or top rated when they rate everything else religiously. I hear adults trying to tell others how to chose their own friends. Adults saying that it's silly and sad as well as a form of insecurity to wonder if the drawing you are admiring is made from someone's imagination or replicated from someone else's art. Adults proclaiming that those who proudly announce that they don't use the photoguide think themselves 'masters of art'!

For the record, referencing is NOT the same as tracing. Look it up. I did and this was a short yet simple explanation.

-Reference: in a nutshell, it's looking at other images and copying what you need from them, be it anatomy, pose, style quirks, markings, colors, etc. Usually, the heavier the reference, the more similarities between the source and the art piece.

-Trace: A reproduction made by superimposing a transparent sheet and copying the lines of the original on it. It's only ever ok if what you're tracing is your own work! Tracing and art-theft are the only things in art that you can really call 'cheating'. Both are forms of plagiarism.

Something I found interesting was that not a single soul attacked our lovely, most kind hearted fun loving Queekian, Danila when she said, "Surely I don't consider Artistic to simply colour a picture, although great artists used this for centuries. For me the creation out of Fantasy is the ART.But this is only me..To copy a subject alive needs great skills, then is Art, to use a picture as a base is not Art." Why is that? Is it because she is really nice to everyone and is loved by all, because she just plainly said that using a picture is NOT art. That should sting some of us shouldn't it? Is that not basically saying the same as what the people who didn't want the photoguide said? I think the world of Danila because she is so very kind to everyone but that no one said anything to her but quickly attacked the others makes me wonder; is it just easier to attack those who are younger, seemingly less equipped to handle debates?

I have kids that like Queeky but I am starting to feel that it's not a very safe place for them when I see this kind of behavior going on. It's one thing for kids to attack each other as kids do but when an adult act that way it can have a long lasting effect on a youth's psyche. They look up to you, idolize your wisdom and talent, for goodness sake be careful what you say and do.

Maybe I should have titled my comment "the bandersnatch".

wungu's picture
Two stage response ... Johari Window

Does everyone know about Johari Window? In case not this is a methodology for understanding ourselves and others better and building trust within relationships.

  • We all have an area which is open – we know those things about ourselves and others know them too (eg from my bio: I am 46 years old, female and I live in Scotland) of course because this is online you have to take my word for that but they are facts and could be verified

  • We all have an area of information we know about ourselves but others don’t (eg I wear size 8 (UK) footwear) well ok you all know now but I guess I feel safe to share that bit of info!

  • We all have an area of information that we are not aware of about ourselves but others are (eg someone has bad body odour and no one tells) at least we do not have smelly-pc so I need never worry about this; and

  • Finally we all have an area of information about us that we do not yet know and neither does anyone else (eg we are about to come down with flu but haven’t shown any symptoms yet)

  • The reason this methodology is so strong is as we exchange information – as we tell others about ourselves and they offer feedback, we learn who we trust.

    We all learn about ourselves and others our entire life – we are not born knowing everything. No matter how mature a person might seem a 14 year old human brain is still clinically immature and still has much to learn (in fact it will not reach cognitive maturity for a further 10 years). A 60 year old human brain is almost certainly starting to lose some of its power and cognitive impairment may be developing – in the middle we enjoy a period of time where we know and understand ourselves and our world much better than at any other time in our lives.

    Why have I written all this in this thread - well it is not always easy to trust others in sharing something about ourselves – I have watched in this thread while another member revealed a debility they suffer that impacts on their art – Susie put a great deal of trust in all of us to listen and understand what she was saying. Some people continued to rubbish her for using a guide for colour referencing.

    Now if Susie hadn’t shared that I would not have known, but I have been able to go do some research and find out how Susie’s world appears – yes I can now see why sometimes I have not quite related to a colour that Susie might have described (eg she may have referred to purple when I think it is cerise) ... but you know what? Susie is a fine artist who overcomes the obstacles in her painting life – not by belittling others or praising herself up but by working hard to achieve something she wants and sharing with others. That is what encouraging others is about not telling them what wonderful and talented people they are but setting them an example and behaving honestly ...

    There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. Edith Wharton

    wungu's picture
    ... and now the specifics:

    I wanted to set that all out to show that this is not about personal tit-for-tat; my response was about exactly what you say it isn’t – it was encouraging a young person to take responsibility for her behaviour, for her interactions with others and to take a share of responsibility for making this a good and strong community to belong to. If people choose not to understand that and continue slinging mud that is their prerogative ... but it will surely get to be a messy place to hang out!

    In your post, Giselle, I wasn't completely clear regarding to whom you are addressing yourself - but in response regarding my actions:

    I am neither attacking nor disrespecting young members; and by the way, yes it is our job, as adults, to educate and nurture all young people whether our offspring or not ... and it is the avoidance of so doing which so badly undermines society today. All people, regardless of age, are entitled to express their views, it is a right, but with rights come responsibilities - in this case the responsibility to respect others' views and feelings even if not agreeing with them.

    You comment about petty behaviour - I have never removed anyone from my friends list and have only once declined a friend request; I am honest and clear about rating - and definitely do not play any games to avoid anyone receiving recognition for their work but neither do I join in with rewarding those who beg for rates rather than work at their art. This means that if I rate, comment or fave anyone’s work it is my decision and it is my honest opinion.

    In terms of the original topic - the photoguide: I have seen statements on some of my pictures since Queeky2 was born stating the photoguide was used (check out Edith Piaf for an example - on which I had already identified the way I used the reference before the statement about the photoguide appeared) and yes if the photo is still included within Queeky2 it goes to Collages - hence my observation that these images are clearly marked.

    I am not, as has been suggested, insecure about this ... I have made my views about the photoguide clear BUT in the recent posts I am one of those whose views are being rubbished and trampled all over so I think it is reasonable that I should stand up for myself. I deliberately related my response to KOs statements to be open and honest which is what KO states she appreciates in people. It also offered the opportunity for KO to look in 'the mirror' and reflect on her own behaviour ... to see some of the things that others perceive about her that she does not yet know herself. It was not picking on her and I question that you genuinely feel that KO is holding her own - is that how we now refer to someone exhibiting how inarticulate they are? Being rude, telling people you are too busy to write coherently and being sarcastic are never OK even if it is KO.

    As for clicks ... I have never belonged to a clique ... but I have watched one clique developing recently and seen how much it is undermining this site ... I have been a target of serious bullying by a clique in real life so I am aware of how much damage this causes and I will not sit on the sidelines and watch a small group of ill-informed people taking pot-shots at others.

    The reason I see this clique is because I look at the big picture of the site as a whole and see echoes of the same behaviour in different threads. An example of this is seeing almost identically phrased and clearly flawed personal comments made against one member on several occasions by connected individuals ... maybe you didn't see an exchange that was edited within 12 hours of appearing in the comments of another's art a few months ago?

    There is a tradition in online fora to post with a "hot head and a cool heart" - it is clear where this happens because posts are often heavily edited or removed by their originator when they regret what they said; simply removing a post doesn't mean it didn't exist and it wasn't seen by others - the damage is already done. All of my posts are considered and offered with a cool head and a warm heart - the only editing I do is when I spot poor grammar or a typo that I missed previously.

    In terms of people leaving the site - Lime took offence to people disagreeing with her sometime ago and stated so.

    You are right kids attacking kids is one thing - but when those kids move into the adult world and start attacking adults there comes a point where they have to own their actions and stop hiding behind the 'kids' banner. KO entered into this dialogue voluntarily, none of us enticed her in and groomed her. She also considers she is mature enough to view adult content and so has given a false age to do so and then openly tells us she really isn’t 100 ... those are her choices. Rubbishing other people is also her choice, as it is yours to stand up for poor defenceless little KO (I am not being sarcastic but echoing how your retort came across to me) and as it is mine to stand up for others on this site and myself.

    There are no prizes, this is not about winning individually – it is about winning a fabulous online community where everyone feels safe and valued for whatever contributions they choose to make. We largely moderate ourselves and have very few rules imposed upon us ... that will only work if everyone behaves with integrity. Showing aggression to others and refusing to listen is insulting to everyone and especially to Admin and Paul who make this wonderful resource available to us all.

    There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. Edith Wharton

    KO's picture
    Poor little ..

    defenceless KO, is refusing to stoop to your level, I will not bicker back at you, but if anybody (including you.) would like to clarify anything that has been said here, by all means, Private message me or, even just comment here if it regards the photoguide. Laughing out loud I'd love to set anything straight if it needs to be, and discuss anything that you think should be, If you are willing to be mature and polite, about it, I am too Smile

    I would appreciate it if you could stop trying to put me down.(I put myself into this, as a participator, not a topic, no matter how much you've tried to make this something else. Just because I happen to be twenty or so years younger than Kutedymlpes and not the saint she is, I am allowed to withdraw from this 'arguement', aswell.) and try to either get back to the photoguide, or leave others to it.

    I hope this all gets cleared up, and worked out for your and others sakes.

    I'll leave it alone, as long as you leave me alone, Wungu. I'm not looking for a fight. ^__^


    Donnie's picture

    I don't understand why everyone here is trying to disengage this discussion. Personally, I think there is some points that aren't being discussed but need to be. Unless I'm mistaken alot of us believe that the photoguide is a bad tool and should be removed. So again, unless I'm mistaken, isn't this discussion thread 'Remove the photo guide!'? And don't alot of us want the photoguide removed? or import or whatever it's called now. I read every single post made on this thread but it's been weeks now(and 48 long posts I'm not too eager to re-read) and I don't remember where we went off on this tangent of "oh I'm not trying to be rude but sod off *inappropriate smiley face". I believe this discussion was meant to be about debating the pros and cons of the photoguide and I don't see how getting photoguide 2.0 makes this discussion any less valid.

    And if you don't want to debate about removing the photoguide, you can leave the topic called remove the photo guide. Or not stop others from debating it. I think we're wildly off topic and some people are getting childlishly rude, despite their older age.

    I strongly agree with Lime and if no one on this topic will move past their insecurities and have an adult debate about this, well, then you should be ashamed of yourselves.

    Nobody has to debate about this, but if no one does, then I might bring it up in a different topic so as to get some recognition by people who can rationally consider removing the offending tool. So it would be nice if those here who feel strongly for this tool could voice their opinion and debate with others--calmly, about the pros and cons.

    betty's picture
    Hello Donnie

    When I draw a picture on this site I use the photo guide for an outline, occasionally. I do not trace every line but I might use help around the eyes or to get the right distance between two points. I hope you see from my art that I have talent enough to do a drawing without the photoguide - but really it is a valuable TOOL - in that a drawing that would need to be corrected over and over using "freehand" is done correctly the first time in about 1/5 of the time. I never considered this cheating and I was delighted that this method was available in Import for example. I do not claim to be a professional artist to anyone on this site - I am learning all the time, however accomplished my art may appear. I find I like to challenge myself more because of the Import tool and would like to point out that many artists that were considered Great Masters used similar methods like a light box and using cadavers to study anatomy, et cetera. Today we have different methods, thank goodness, including photoshop and the Import tool. I did go to an art school where we used a grid system to draw, and had models, and spent hours and hours doing perspective drawings. Do I need to spend extra time, like a novice? No. I am glad I have a time saver at my disposal, that allows me to draw a more satisfactory picture, in my opinion, and I am happy that Queeky offers this opportunity. I hope this offers you insight into the benefit of using this tool in a practical way.